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Thats's how I see it too. Hence why I try to look at the best the card can offer. I think it's important to separate "positive" from "optimistic"… in advice position, I try to see negative cards in their most positive way, which does not mean an optimistic, “everything’s gonna be alright” sort of way. So in the case of the Tower, the advice might be "you may need to do something drastic to change your situation" or “prepare to weather the storm”. (Of course, hopefully the rest of the reading + intuition would help me at the time to make it more complex than this 😅).

I drew it in the outcome position for a happy marriage., My sitter totally got it !

This is one of the reasons I keep telling myself, 'this is ADVICE.' Good advice would not show you something scary and leave you dangling there. It would suggest the best way for you to deal with a situation. A malefic Advice card would warn you NOT to do something detrimental to yourself, or others. It would never suggest that you do. A malefic card in the Advice position in your spread is not warning you that something bad will happen either. That's for another card position to illustrate. The Advice card should always be taken positively, in my opinion. That's what it's for.

I asked my friend what he does out of curiosity since it was our hang out time and he said he asks the card and also interprets it depending on the context, and also that he thinks the answer is different per person per deck. He’s pretty spiritual and in tune with his intuition through years of practice I think, so his answer made sense to me. Just adding another perspective to the mix, hehe

I liked the examples you used. This is the way I’d been going about it but I’m not very intuitive and my tricky ADHD mind is always coming up with new angles to look at stuff at, even if it’s not particularly welcome. Like “we could look at it like this…or the complete opposite! Or this way!” Not helping brain! Doing a reflection at the end of the day on my daily advice readings has helped me trust myself more when I’m leaning towards an angle, and I feel like this style of reading offers the most flexibility. Ooh that makes a lot of sense. The example of the tower saying ‘don’t catastrophize’ makes a lot of sense to me. It kinda reminds me of cognitive behavioral therapy. You look at your automatic thoughts and label the pattern the thought seems to be part of and try to form a rational response instead. So the malefic cards in advice positions could be alerting you to unhelpful thoughts and behaviors and asks you to recognize them and respond in a different way. I feel like this style seems simple but it’s direct and clear and powerful. I like this. I feel like I’ve kinda tried to do this but I always second guess myself. It gives proper credit to the idea that there aren’t really negative cards, and whether a card is negative or positive depends on the context and position it shows up in. Sometimes you do have to be crafty, or lie, or in the case of the tower - take a sledgehammer to it, haha. I feel like this could also allow for a bit of moral grayness instead of black/white thinking. I feel like this can be an empowering way to look at things too. Sometimes things are bad, but it’s how we respond to it that counts. It kinda reminds me of how in astrology there are benefic planets and malefic planets but even the malefics are necessary and can teach us lessons and give us gifts. The 10 of swords stalked me for at least a full year, maybe longer, a while back. I even got the card “defeat” from the vessel oracle, a deck that doesn’t have a ten of swords. I was like persistent much??? Glad that’s over. Lol. Hmm yall gave some really good answers. I’ll have to give it a good think or try different approaches out until I see what fits.

I found a review, in BR portuguese on the deck, watching now the full video. Gilded Reverie Lenormand "Extended Edition Review" - BR

Nice! I had this ideia, to search for his name and first book and found it! It's fairly cheap, less then 17 reais, a good pizza here costs like 50 reais so... I was just a little concern to buy it and not be able to read it (format). But I google it (again) and the answer was (https://share.google/aimode/BsVIAB84BoPY21koQ) that I can read on my notebook so... hehehe! Aparently I'm getting old... It's been awhile (more like 15y) that I spent my time on online forums, so... 👀 But I guess for me to participate I'll have to comment 5 times, also for having my own signature and edit my posts. I'll try to be less a noob hahaha! >.<'

I'll do my research about it, sounds interesting! I'm a newbie on tarot decks, I only know the basics: Marseille, RWS, The Wild Unkown Archetypes - an oracle deck by Kim Krans, and now I'm studying Lenormand, known as "Baralho Cigano" on Brasil. But I don't consider myself a cartomancer, just a spiritual enthusiast. Now I'm very curious to know the concept behind the additional cards on this Gilded Reverie - Ciro Marchetti deck!

You can check out Amazon too, especially if you’d prefer a Kindle edition: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenormand-Thirty-Six-Cards-2015-ebook/dp/B010EAA5YQ?ref_=ast_author_mpb

Ok, here is another essay on the deck. I found it helpful. https://www.tarocks.com/blogs/news/knapp-hall-tarot-deck I haven’t had time to read a lot this week, but I did draw some cards early in the week, which had me puzzled a little. I didn’t have a question. It was just a ‘what do I need to know’ draw: 2 of Sceptres - Death Base card: Knight of Swords I’m working on a book at the moment and had tied myself in knots about it. I read the 2 of Sceptres as that impasse or block. The Death card read to me like a major breakthrough, a clearing of mental blockage. The base card I read as the activity of writing and intellectual work. The breakthrough came to pass, and I’m in a much better place mentally. I’m particularly intrigued by the small symbols in the top right-hand corner of the Minors. As per the attached essay, these are meditation symbols: “Their significance must be discovered by internal experience, expanding the meaning of the cards on which they appear.” The Ankh on the Knight of Swords connects with my reading: My work and thinking has had a new lease of life. — I was struggling with the snake in the 2 of Wands at first, but it now makes sense. This is an image of wisdom. In my own symbolic universe, it’s a symbol of poetic knowledge (as per the story of the white snake by the Brothers Grimm, or the Irish equivalent of the Salmon of Knowledge). In other words, I had blocked access to the source of vitality that carries my work, access to poetic knowledge. I have to say, it’s a very challenging deck! Rewarding when you get into it, but challenging to master.

Oh yes, Thoth Lust and Star are also very special and meaningful to me. The Lust card appeared for me in a reading done by a friend when I was 18, I never forgot it, and searched out tarot ten years later. I didn't know which deck it was from, bought the Thoth without checking it beforehand (no Internet back then), opened it - and found Lust, the card that had called to me all that time. And the Star - what a gorgeous card, filled with meaning. The Thoth Star must be among the most beautiful cards ever created. I must say though that in most decks, the Star stands out. The Tabula Mundi Tarot, inspired by the Thoth, also has an outstandingly beautiful Star card. The creator of the Tabula Mundi, M.M. Meleen, also painted a magical Star card in the Spectrum Fari Tarot, depicting the Milky Way and its queen. For me, this is Elbereth Gilthoniel herself. There is something visionary and ethereal about the Star card - I can't imagine a tarot reader who doesn't like it ;-) And I'd love to see your tattoo! I've been thinking about a tarot-related tattoo for a while, but haven't found the right motif yet.

To me it's a 2-part process. the cards will definitely answer your question--but first I must ASK the RIGHT question the cards help me refine the question In real life client readings I nearly always start with a general spread. This points me in the direction of what are the right questions to actually ask? I think many of us experience clients or sitters who present with one question--but they actually have something else on their mind. So in a way i suppose my first question is ALWAYS: what is the right question to ask here? I hope that makes sense. To me the whole point of readings is that they answer questions--but it's super important to ask the right question and be exact with your language.

LOL the cards advise: you're totally f*cked. Might as well accept it. Practice Stoicism. Sorry, I couldn't resist a bit of humor. I really, really hate seeing 10 swords in the advice position. But even that's better than the outcome position.

Yes. That fits with how it's been appearing in my "ambiguous romance" reads. You WANT the person to be partial to you -- and they're not. Curious how you see it as benefic for school and career? Career-wise I usually see it if the client is a lawyer or dealing with lawyers; or if there is some INjustice at work. Like a layoff they might end up fighting to get their severance pay. Or involving union rep or HR dept for some workplace problem. I don't know that I've ever had it come up for an education spread--but I would tend to see it as some type of legal action or arbitration with the school or financial aid--not necessarily a good or bad card. Neutral.

Your ideas remind me of Ciro Marchetti Gilded Reverie lenormand. One of my favorite decks. He added: Time, Bridge, Dice, Mask, Well, Compass, Labyrinth, Magnifying Glass. I don't use the extra cards much. I find myself still struggling to memorize the original 36. I enjoy the concept tho. Your ideas sound useful. Black cat and Owl are interesting and different from the Ciro deck. Your extras would make a fun expansion pack to regular lenormand.

Here’s a Barnes and Noble link so you can see the details but you can find it at other booksellers too. Welcome to the forum. 🙂 https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/lenormand-thirty-six-cards-andy-boroveshengra/1119985411

Where can one find the first book?

Hey everyone! How's it going? Newbie here :) This is my first post (pls be kind >.<), and I actually found this forum through the topic 'Discussion on Missing Topics and Overburdened Cards' (https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/topic/15650-discussion-on-missing-topics-and-overburdened-cards/) I'm trying to adapt the 36 cards — and beyond the ones that can have gender, I feel the need for some specific cards that the deck doesn't have individually, but rather attributes to different cards/combinations depending on who's doing the reading. So far, these are the additions: 37 - Hourglass Time, future, innovation, technology, awareness of time, passing of time. 38 - Mirror Self, self-knowledge, inner truth, reflection, point of view. 39 - Ladder Profession, career, work, effort, ascension, gradual progress. 40 - Potion Healing, remedy, treatment, regeneration, physical and emotional relief. 41 - Black Cat Left-hand entities (exu, pombogira, exu-mirim), occult, mystery, magic-spell-witchcraft. 42 - Owl Right-hand entities (preto-velho, erê, caboclo), wisdom, ancestral knowledge, relatives. 43 - Bridge Reconciliation (possible and certain), overcoming divisions, connection, diplomacy. 44 - Wine Glass Pleasure, sex, drugs, nightlife, indulgence, celebration, hedonism, excesses. What do you all think of these additions? I look forward to comments and suggestions! I'll be right over there reading in the "Deck Creators Lounge" A brazilian "chero", Moony_!

Hello @amirartpop welcome to the TT&M Family Your tattoo sounds very interesting. 🤗

I have a tattoo inspired by the Thoth Lust and Star card on my right arm, very special and meaningful cards for me

Justice represents being unbiased and logical to me. This card is great for career or school but in love I would want a lover interest to be bias and give me the benefit of the doubt instead of looking at things black and white/right or wrong. Justice also represents pettiness and getting even like it took you 2 hours to reply to my text so I’m gonna take 4 hours to reply to yours. So the justice card could be warning that this person is petty and will do to you what you do to them.

I tend to read a negative card in advice position as the best possible manifestation of the card in question. So in the case of, say, Seven of Sword, you may actually need to be a bit sly and careful, maybe even avoid full honesty about something. For a particularly bad card, like the 10 of Swords, I might interpret it as fully accepting that something has ended and dealing with the loss, while trusting a new day will rise… and so on. I say “best manifestation” not in a moralistic way, but in a “silver lining” sort of way. This card sucks, yeah, but if I could find something useful about it, what would it be? That tends to be my advice.

I've moved it over to the general tarot discussion area as it's an interesting discussion to have 😀

Good question, @zurgles ! As I always include an Advice card in my readings, this issue comes up a lot. I read a negative Advice card —it can be a reversed card if it was a positive card upright, or simply a negative card itself—as 'don't do that.' You may be inclined to 'do that' —but don't! It will be warning you that certain behaviours or attitudes will be a mistake. I think the trick is to remain calm, and realise this card is giving you advice as to how best to behave, or what attitude to take. It's not forecasting what will/won't happen in terms of the occurrence itself! For example, if The Tower upright appears as your Advice card—especially if the overall reading is somewhat negative— it's hard not to think 'OMG terrible things are happening! Be prepared!!!' The 'advice' from the tarot will be—instead—don't behave as if a catastrophe has occurred—because that kind of behaviour will not be helpful at this time. If the Advice card is The Tower, reversed, I'd probably read it as 'no need to worry; this is not a catastrophe.' The first is advising you about your behaviour or attitude. It's warning you against catastrophising a situation, which can only make things worse. The second is advising you not to worry, because the issue isn't as bad as you think it is. (If the situation IS a sudden catastrophe, there are other Advice cards that will appear, telling you what your best course of action or attitude should be. The Tower will may well have appeared elsewhere in the reading.) And yes, I've had both the upright and reversed Tower turn up as Advice. I followed the advice, and it worked out fine. The Advice cards in my personal readings are usually the most important cards in that reading. They give me something to do, or something not to do. That always seems to work out.

Yes, this vexes all of us, I think. Personally I find it context dependent. Frex 7 swords i read as unfinished karma [different than the standard] so I might take it as a bit of a warning that something I thought was finished ... isn't. The advice is that I might have to go back and re-do something. Devil as advice is particularly annoying. Ugh! But in one reading Devil was telling me that it WAS helpful and important to remain attached in the situation. I tend to let go of things and move on. Sometimes to my detriment. Devil advised me to dig in, hold my ground, and keep what was mine. In relationship context Devil might be a warning that old co-dependent patterns will rear their ugly head. Conversely, advising to explore sexual aspects of a relationship. If we take away the religious stuff with Devil ... we're left with a card that can reference sexuality and animal passions. We humans are very smart monkeys when you get right down to it. We have an animal nature. Tower as advice? The very opposite of Devil. LET GO. B/c anything you try to hold onto will just get ripped from your bleeding hands, anyhow. Or if it's a real estate question--you're going to need to do demolition to do the repairs. I think this touches upon the bias we want everything to be "nice" or easy. Including our advice! Life isn't like that. Sometimes we must do the difficult thing or make the hard call. Malefic advice cards often suggest that sort of scenario.