Collector's Advice Thread?

[bookshop]

i'm sort of wondering if there's a collector's advice thread floating around here anywhere, or if anyone else would be interested in starting one? (I joined the tarot collectors forum but it seems a bit advanced and updates rarely.)

 

I sometimes feel like i'm completely clueless when it comes to discerning what decks are valuable and why. For instance, I just apparently lucked out and found a $65 copy of the III Millennium on ebay (a deck I've been kind of obsessed with since @Saturn Celeste suggested it as a good deck for me a while back).

 

And the seller seems legit, but I know this deck is selling for upwards of $400 and $500 elsewhere, so I'm feeling very confused. 

 

Also, just in general, I feel like there's so much I just don't know or understand about what makes decks valuable, or why some decks are wildly varied in price ranges. For instance, multiple instances of the Crow's Magick Tarot are currently for sale on ebay  — only one of these is for sale for $3,000, one for $300, and one for $90. With prices this wildly dynamic, how do experienced collectors understand what a deck is worth? 

 

I have so many more basic questions, but I'm not sure where to go to get them answered. Is it okay to start a thread for questions like these? 

[gregory]

I Am A Collector. (Am I ever....) coughs slightly

 

I have to say that advice based entirely on value will never work. I looked at that sale - and I think the seller underpriced, perhaps - but it's much more likely that the others overpriced. If you won it - I think you can safely be happy ! I sold a deck on ebay recently for about half the price others were asking. But - the others that were up when I listed are still up there unsold. I actually wanted to sell at a reasonable price to someone who would, I hoped, be delighted - and that was what I achieved.

 

There is NO WAY Crow's Magick is "worth" $3,000 in any universe (though I don't see one at that price !) - but someone may be stupid enough to fall for it. I wouldn't have paid $300 for it either.

 

Now the cheap one op there now @$45 - looks fine, BUT (this is the kind of thing I watch for, if you are looking for advice) the seller has had FOUR copies for sale - one is gone so there are still 3 - of a 1999 LE deck that I would buy in a heartbeat if it were for real. The artist printed a whole TWELVE copies. This has to be a bootleg - and so I wonder about the seller's other decks.

 

What makes decks "valuable" is on the whole supply and demand, pure and simple. When I buy, I pay only what a deck is worth TO ME at the time. And especially I don't buy as an investment. They will never work that way.

 

I don't see why this thread can't be used for "questions like these" !

[Raggydoll]

Any collectible items will only ever be worth what someone is willing (and able) to pay for it in this moment in time. That’s the real value. And the value can never be based on what one highly keen buyer is willing to pay - that would only be counted as a top note price, it takes multiple buyers and a persistent interest before an item can be considered as valuable and collectible. In my opinion, anyway. So that makes it complicated to say the least. What makes it even more complicated is that trends change on an instant. You will find that a hyped deck can wane out of interest fairly quickly and changes in politics and world economics can also add a powerful and unpredictable factor. When a deck or a creator suddenly gets a bad reputation then that can put buyers off and the price would then drop very significantly. And if there is an uncertainty in the world economy then that can mean that the max levels that people are willing (or able) to spend will change too.

 

From personal experience I know that certain times of year it will be harder to get maximum prices (perhaps people are short on money after Christmas or too busy spending money on their vacations to look for eBay actions etc but till will depend on what type of item you’re selling, some will even be more desired during the holidays). So many variables! I’ve both been the buyer/collector and the seller (both privately and in some areas also professionally) and I have seen all this first hand. So if anyone tells you a guaranteed value for your items - other than for insurance purposes, which is an entirely different thing - then I would be wary. There will be a ball-park value that you can get by checking sold items on auctions (NOT unsold offers or amazon prices) and then decide for yourself the least amount you would pay/take for the item. Personally, I don’t buy a deck (or a piece of art for that matter) just for its collectibility. I need to like it and have a purpose for it. Because if all else fails and I can’t get my money back then I at least have something I like and that’s always nice 🙂 

 

And yes, you can discuss this topic here. I am sure other collectors will chime in too, but Gregory is definitely what constitutes a real collector and you can take her word for it. She has plenty of experience and really know her stuff. 

 

 

 

 

[gregory]

AND - that seller: take a look at this listing:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pictorial-Key-Tarot-without-frame-78-cards/163846037419

 

"Product of Ukraine..." (as is the Iona, now that I look more closely.)

 

The Pictorial Key is a product of Lo Scarabeo - who are definitely NOT in the Ukraine. So - bootlegs. Whether you are OK paying for a bootleg deck is down to your own conscience.

[Eric13]

I agree with what's already been said so I wont repeat it. But in my opinion, the few true collectibles are the original issue of RWS decks, Crowleys first Thoth from 1943, never even seen one, and then probably all the really antique decks of TdM cards I see on ebay pre-war. Theres some from the 1800', but at $2100, would you really want to use that? I did see an Original Pam B deck on ebay last week or so and someone did buy it. I guess that's great to have if that's all you want.

But theres a lot of the newer boutique decks being made now that sell out quickly and may be collectible in 50 years. The thing is, nowadays people buy stuff like that and store it away just for that purpose, and then something out of no where turns out to be collectible. 

[gregory]

I say again - the word "collectible" means NOTHING.

[PathWalker]

At the heart of the question is another question surely - what do you mean by the term "collectable"?

 

I have a (relatively) small collection - they have nothing to do with price or current value, and everything to do with the fact that I LIKE them, and I read with most of them when the fancy takes me.

 

If you're asking "how can I tell which decks I should buy now, to sell later and make a lot of money?" - well there is no way to tell. Unless, as Eric suggest you seek out decks that are already rare by virtue of their age. This will cost up front.  If you need to make an investment that you can bank on it the future then buy gold bullion - rarely loses it's value.

 

If you want a collection of decks that will impress your friends, well my friends are mostly impressed with quantity not quality as they don't know much about tarot LOL

 

If you want a collection that you'll truly love - then buy what you like the most, the ones whose artwork inspires you, or makes you laugh, or makes you think.

 

Tarot collecting is honestly not about the £££.

 

very best wishes

PathWalker

[gregory]

I echo every last word Pathwalker just posted. I have only ever considered the price factor when it has been something really rare and I have known it would cost (my killer was the Priapo, which I should have bought - as is my usual practice - when it came out.) As I have almost always done that (I am very old, though sadly not old enough to have been able to get a 1909 Waite Smith when it came out) in THEORY I could be obscenely rich. In practice - not going to happen. I collect for love of tarot, and none of my decks will leave my grasping little paws till I pop my clogs, That is NOT what I bought them for. And I would strongly recommend that no-one buy as an investment.

Edited September 10, 2019 by gregory

[bookshop]

Just to clarify up front, I'm not looking to do anything but collect tarot that makes me happy, and that I find unique and interesting. But i'm also finding that I am surprisingly willing to spend a bit more for decks that are off the beaten path when I can find them — and this is new territory for me, I've never done anything like this before, so I'm just trying to proceed knowledgeably!

5 hours ago, gregory said:

There is NO WAY Crow's Magick is "worth" $3,000 in any universe (though I don't see one at that price !) - but someone may be stupid enough to fall for it. I wouldn't have paid $300 for it either.

Just to source myself, here's a screencap of the listing (on the U.S. ebay site):

 

One wild thing is that there's another factory-sealed deck listed for $245 right now. If I were seriously hunting for this deck and I saw these two prices for the exact same item, I'd be so confused — and I might even buy the $245 deck thinking I got a bargain. But is it a bargain!? It seems not, since there's also a $90 copy of the deck for sale! But does one copy being factory-sealed make such a huge difference? I'm not sure!

 

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This has to be a bootleg - and so I wonder about the seller's other decks.

I assumed that to be the case for that sale as well —  In addition to the Ukraine address, as you noted, I also noticed that the seller's cards seemed to have had their borders trimmed (or to have been printed without them), and without the box there's no way I would believe this was a genuine deck. But clearly other people did.

 

I honestly have so many follow-up questions for every single person in this thread! @gregory you said "When I buy, I pay only what a deck is worth TO ME at the time" but you have a staggering number of decks, so you must have a really strong idea of what your criteria is for a must-have deck. Or do you mostly go on gut feelings? Or both? I feel like just in my short time here I've seen you be super specific about things like card stock and TdM variants and readability and I'm just completely fascinated by the thought process that goes into your collection — especially now that I know you have a 'one that got away' deck. Does that change how you view all the others? 

 

Some of this is stuff I've been getting at on the thread I started for "holy grail" decks, because I'm really fascinated by the things that make people consider a deck worth searching for and trying to attain even when it may seem unattainable. Since I started, I've been astonished at the number of decks I assumed were completely rare, never-to-be-found items, which are actually popping up all over the place, and that's made me question what is "attainable" anyway, and what my goalposts for my collection should be. 

 

@Raggydoll your thoughts on this are all really helpful and clarifying to me, thank you! Also I think all the factors you mention make it easier to understand why you and @gregory don't view decks as investments. I definitely feel like there are collectors who do view decks as investments, though? I think what @Eric said about people buying decks and storing them up as potential future investments seems to be increasingly common, given all the 'never used' items that i see on ebay. That makes me sad on one level, but also I do find it kind of thrilling.

 

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You will find that a hyped deck can wane out of interest fairly quickly

 

 

 

Ooooh are there any examples of this in recent memory? I feel like most of the decks that were in high demand when i really started delving into this space 2-ish years ago are still in high demand now, but i'm still learning so much about things like deck editions and publishers that I'm sure affect this directly.

 

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checking sold items on auctions

.....I didn't even know that was a thing you could do. See, this is why I need an advice thread! 😂

 

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But in my opinion, the few true collectibles are the original issue of RWS decks, Crowleys first Thoth from 1943, never even seen one, and then probably all the really antique decks of TdM cards I see on ebay pre-war. 

Okay *rolls up sleeves* thank you, @Eric!!! this brings me to one of my other burning questions, which is — how do you learn this stuff?  Is there a good single source for information on the endless variants and publication histories and pattern styles of decks? Or even a good method of sussing it all out?

 

For instance, the other day I got curious so I decided to see if I could find the deck that @archimedea's lovely icon comes from, so i went on what I thought would be a fairly simple Google jaunt, and then wound up spending hours overwhelmed and trying to sort out information about intricate TdM variations, mainly from google images, before finally coming to understand that Grimaud has published multiple editions of its Ancien Tarot over the decades, but for some reason only the original 1930 edition has that lovely teal color design instead of the darker royal blue that gets used later on. And there are 2 versions of the 1930 edition? One with a fleur de lis and one without it? And the one with the fleur de lis is apparently that much rarer? Or is it? And why do none of the later editions use the teal color scheme? Is it a printing thing? Is it a Besancon thing? I don't understand any of this, it's like trying to solve a puzzle without seeing the assembled picture!

 

(Also I just have to say that if I had a $2100 tarot deck I would use it EVERY DAY haha)

 

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If you want a collection that you'll truly love - then buy what you like the most, the ones whose artwork inspires you, or makes you laugh, or makes you think.

@PathWalker I love everything you said here, and this advice is definitely what I think I've been doing so far — I think my collection is a wide quirky range of decks, and I love most of them a whole lot. (The ones I don't love, I have kept because I appreciate some aspect of them, or because my readers really love them more than I do and frequently request me to do readings from them). 

 

I think for me, though, I also want to know more about what I should want? Like, for example — clearly a whole lot of people are obsessed with tiny variants in Tarot de Marseilles patterns, designs, color tones, history, and card quality, and I want to know and understand more about that and why people are drawn to certain decks above others. Or, I know people fall all over themselves for every out of print Baba Studio deck, but I don't understand why those decks have the reputations they do over other similar decks, not really. (There! is! a! copy! of Baroque Bohemian Cats! Currently priced at $3,839.00 on ebay right now! Would you really pay $3,839.00 for photoshopped cat heads!!! I know those decks are unicorns, but I just don't know!!!!) 

 

And I feel like understanding the kinds of things that knowledgeable tarot collectors find valuable will make me a lot more savvy as someone who tries to buy unique and interesting decks that speak to me — and it will also just help me appreciate the tradition and the evolution of the cards a whole lot more.

 

Also I feel like I should disclose something at this point, which is that in my day job I'm a culture reporter at Vox, and when my editor learned I'd gotten really into tarot collection, she was super fascinated and wanted me to pitch an article on the subject. So I am thinking about all of these questions for my own personal knowledge/use, but I'm also thinking about how I might frame them as a journalist, and I don't want to blindside anyone, so if anyone here is uncomfortable with a journalist reading their thoughts on tarot collecting, please let me know and I'll absolutely consider your thoughts/perspectives you've been kind enough to share with me off-limits in terms of whatever i might ultimately write about all this!

 

Thank you all! This is really all so helpful.

Edited September 10, 2019 by bookshop

[gregory]

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

Just to clarify up front, I'm not looking to do anything but collect tarot that makes me happy, and that I find unique and interesting. But i'm also finding that I am surprisingly willing to spend a bit more for decks that are off the beaten path when I can find them — and this is new territory for me, I've never done anything like this before, so I'm just trying to proceed knowledgeably!

Just to source myself, here's a screencap of the listing (on the U.S. ebay site):

Bloody hell.

If that sells (unless to best offer...) I will be more than gobsmacked !

 

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

One wild thing is that there's another factory-sealed deck listed for $245 right now. If I were seriously hunting for this deck and I saw these two prices for the exact same item, I'd be so confused — and I might even buy the $245 deck thinking I got a bargain. But is it a bargain!? It seems not, since there's also a $90 copy of the deck for sale! But does one copy being factory-sealed make such a huge difference? I'm not sure!

I don't get excited about factory sealed; if I want a deck I shall be opening it so who cares. If you are wondering - a) look to see what the deck has sold for in its time. b) post an ISO here and see what people will offer you c) if you want it enough and have the money - go for it.

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

I assumed that to be the case for that sale as well —  In addition to the Ukraine address, as you noted, I also noticed that the seller's cards seemed to have had their borders trimmed (or to have been printed without them), and without the box there's no way I would believe this was a genuine deck. But clearly other people did.

OR didn't mind buying a bootleg. There are many who don't care. I really want that deck and I am tempted - but...

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

I honestly have so many follow-up questions for every single person in this thread! @gregory you said "When I buy, I pay only what a deck is worth TO ME at the time" but you have a staggering number of decks, so you must have a really strong idea of what your criteria is for a must-have deck. Or do you mostly go on gut feelings? Or both? I feel like just in my short time here I've seen you be super specific about things like card stock and TdM variants and readability and I'm just completely fascinated by the thought process that goes into your collection — especially now that I know you have a 'one that got away' deck. Does that change how you view all the others? 

No it doesn't change how I view others. I did buy the Priapo - but it cost me LOADS more than I would have paid if I hadn't been stupid in the first place. But it was worth it to me when I cracked ! When I started out, all decks were must haves... Those were the days - before etsy, gamecrafter, kickstarter and all. Now I'm on a pension, but more to the point, now that anyone can put out anything on somewhere like gamecrafter - there are a lot of decks I do not want nowadays. (Also with UK customs being the way they are, I basically can't back kickstarters the way I used to; importing them pretty much doubles the price. Sad, but...

 

I don't exactly know that I have a thought process....

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

Some of this is stuff I've been getting at on the thread I started for "holy grail" decks, because I'm really fascinated by the things that make people consider a deck worth searching for and trying to attain even when it may seem unattainable. Since I started, I've been astonished at the number of decks I assumed were completely rare, never-to-be-found items, which are actually popping up all over the place, and that's made me question what is "attainable" anyway, and what my goalposts for my collection should be. 

Only YOU can set your goalposts, Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I have decks I love that others think are just awful.

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

@Raggydoll your thoughts on this are all really helpful and clarifying to me, thank you! Also I think all the factors you mention make it easier to understand why you and @gregory don't view decks as investments. I definitely feel like there are collectors who do view decks as investments, though? I think what @Eric said about people buying decks and storing them up as potential future investments seems to be increasingly common, given all the 'never used' items that i see on ebay. That makes me sad on one level, but also I do find it kind of thrilling.

I think there are quite a few people who buy duplicates to sell on later - they bide their time till the price rises and then jump. I can't be bothered.

 

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

Okay *rolls up sleeves* thank you, @Eric!!! this brings me to one of my other burning questions, which is — how do you learn this stuff?  Is there a good single source for information on the endless variants and publication histories and pattern styles of decks? Or even a good method of sussing it all out?

No single place, no. Sorry.... But with something like the Waite-Smite decks - there are threads on AT if you need them - same for the Thoth.

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

(Also I just have to say that if I had a $2100 tarot deck I would use it EVERY DAY haha)

I have ONE deck I don't use much; this is simply because there is gold ink on it SO thick that the cards stick together and have to be stored with tissue between them. Pity, that. If I want to read with it, I shuffle another deck and pull, then pick out the cards from the sticky one !

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

@PathWalker I love everything you said here, and this advice is definitely what I think I've been doing so far — I think my collection is a wide quirky range of decks, and I love most of them a whole lot. (The ones I don't love, I have kept because I appreciate some aspect of them, or because my readers really love them more than I do and frequently request me to do readings from them). 

 

I think for me, though, I also want to know more about what I should want? 

THERE IS NO SHOULD. You can't have shoulds about what you like. It's like my mother who is adamant that one "should" enjoy Mozart more than the Beatles because Mozart is "better." It doesn't work like that.

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

Like, for example — clearly a whole lot of people are obsessed with tiny variants in Tarot de Marseilles patterns, designs, color tones, history, and card quality, and I want to know and understand more about that and why people are drawn to certain decks above others. Or, I know people fall all over themselves for every out of print Baba Studio deck, but I don't understand why those decks have the reputations they do over other similar decks, not really. (There! is! a! copy! of Baroque Bohemian Cats! Currently priced at $3,839.00 on ebay right now! Would you really pay $3,839.00 for photoshopped cat heads!!! I know those decks are unicorns, but I just don't know!!!!) 

I absolutely would not. And I bet no-one else will either. But if you want one - FLiz here has a GOLD one up for sale for less than that !

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

And I feel like understanding the kinds of things that knowledgeable tarot collectors find valuable will make me a lot more savvy as someone who tries to buy unique and interesting decks that speak to me — and it will also just help me appreciate the tradition and the evolution of the cards a whole lot more.

The only area where you need savvy is in not being ripped off.

2 hours ago, bookshop said:

 

Also I feel like I should disclose something at this point, which is that in my day job I'm a culture reporter at Vox, and when my editor learned I'd gotten really into tarot collection, she was super fascinated and wanted me to pitch an article on the subject. So I am thinking about all of these questions for my own personal knowledge/use, but I'm also thinking about how I might frame them as a journalist, and I don't want to blindside anyone, so if anyone here is uncomfortable with a journalist reading their thoughts on tarot collecting, please let me know and I'll absolutely consider your thoughts/perspectives you've been kind enough to share with me off-limits in terms of whatever i might ultimately write about all this!

I'd say there - don't quote anyone by name, and do tell us what you are quoting before publication, perhaps ? Courtesy and all that

[bookshop]

I will reply to all of your other fabulous comments tonight but just to get this out of the way! —

Quote

I'd say there - don't quote anyone by name, and do tell us what you are quoting before publication, perhaps ? Courtesy and all that 

 

Oh, don't worry, i'd never quote anyone here without their express permission, and I'd much rather do private interviews anyway. I just didn't want anyone thinking I might be taking their thoughts and putting them in my article. If anyone's interested I'm happy to share whatever I wind up writing here — and on the opposite end of things, if anyone would like to be quoted or interviewed for this piece I'd love to talk to any/all of you so shoot me a PM!

[Eric13]

I myself dont collect any. If I could afford an Original Pam B deck, I would use it as my regular reading deck. I cant afford one of those vintage TdM decks, but I would use it if I had one. But I have 15 decks now. I read with a University Books deck made in '59, I practice with a Hermetic deck. I still have the first deck I ever bought , a TdM deck from Grimaud in 1980 but I haven't used it for several months, I have another from '77 but dont use it either and I have one Tarot of The Bohemians from BaBa Studios but it's just to dark for me. The rest are RWS, and some are vintage and I occasionally read with them. They have a great vibe. I dont have things just to have in my life. I actually dont even want to buy more decks for any reason unless someone offers a deal that good and true! Theres no new decks that interest me. 

[Eric13]

As far as gaining knowledge of all this, well, I have no idea! I know I read that Crowley made about 200 decks in 1943 that are the true originals. Considering it was war time I'm surprised they were even made. But then they were first reissued in 1969. The Pam B deck info I'm sure you already found googling. That's easy. Theres a bunch of blogs that people have linked on here about the old TdM decks, but if you go to the French ebay site theres a lot of them there ,or, just go to France!

[katrinka]

9 hours ago, bookshop said:

Just to clarify up front, I'm not looking to do anything but collect tarot that makes me happy, and that I find unique and interesting. But i'm also finding that I am surprisingly willing to spend a bit more for decks that are off the beaten path when I can find them — and this is new territory for me, I've never done anything like this before, so I'm just trying to proceed knowledgeably!

Off the beaten path? Try this one. https://www.etsy.com/listing/694810115/vamp-the-theda-bara-tarot-self-published?ref=shop_home_active_1&crt=1

It utilizes an old reading method that you normally don't see used. Most decks that try to pass themselves off as "off the beaten path" are either cute/quirky/magic (which is a VERY beaten path), or edgelord BS ("Watch me shock people and get free word of mouth advertising, hurr hurr.") But that one really IS different. I reviewed it here. https://fennario.wordpress.com/2019/04/12/vamp-the-theda-bara-tarot-from-jook-art/

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Just to source myself, here's a screencap of the listing (on the U.S. ebay site):

Some people list things for insane prices just hoping they'll get lucky.
Ebay used to be infested with listings for common Tarots, guitars, dolls, household items, etc. that the seller said were "haunted" and listed for thousands of dollars. I don't think putting "haunted" in a listing is allowed anymore, but people still hope to snag the wealthy and gullible.
My advice? Ignore it.

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One wild thing is that there's another factory-sealed deck listed for $245 right now. If I were seriously hunting for this deck and I saw these two prices for the exact same item, I'd be so confused — and I might even buy the $245 deck thinking I got a bargain. But is it a bargain!? It seems not, since there's also a $90 copy of the deck for sale! But does one copy being factory-sealed make such a huge difference? I'm not sure!

If being factory sealed added any intrinsic value, you could never open it. You wouldn't even know if all the cards were there. (Publishers screw up sometimes.) Tarot people don't care about "factory sealed".
If you want it and the $90 one appears to be in decent condition, grab it.

Quote

 

I assumed that to be the case for that sale as well —  In addition to the Ukraine address, as you noted, I also noticed that the seller's cards seemed to have had their borders trimmed (or to have been printed without them), and without the box there's no way I would believe this was a genuine deck. But clearly other people did.

Bootleg deck. Copyright violation.
And most likely garbage quality.

Quote

 

@Raggydoll your thoughts on this are all really helpful and clarifying to me, thank you! Also I think all the factors you mention make it easier to understand why you and @gregory don't view decks as investments. I definitely feel like there are collectors who do view decks as investments, though? I think what @Eric said about people buying decks and storing them up as potential future investments seems to be increasingly common, given all the 'never used' items that i see on ebay. That makes me sad on one level, but also I do find it kind of thrilling.

 

Ooooh are there any examples of this in recent memory? I feel like most of the decks that were in high demand when i really started delving into this space 2-ish years ago are still in high demand now, but i'm still learning so much about things like deck editions and publishers that I'm sure affect this directly.

 

.....I didn't even know that was a thing you could do. See, this is why I need an advice thread! 😂

People who do that are referred to as "flippers".
They buy multiple copies of popular limited edition decks, not to read or even try out, just to sit on for awhile. Then they just wait for them to go out of print and flip them on ebay for a tidy profit.
They're generally not very well regarded, lol.
Not everyone who sells an OOP deck at a profit is a flipper. If it's OOP and there's a demand, the current market value is pretty high and it's fair to ask that price. But most of us keep our decks, barring medical emergencies, looming homelessness or something of that nature.

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@PathWalker I love everything you said here, and this advice is definitely what I think I've been doing so far — I think my collection is a wide quirky range of decks, and I love most of them a whole lot. (The ones I don't love, I have kept because I appreciate some aspect of them, or because my readers really love them more than I do and frequently request me to do readings from them). 

 

I think for me, though, I also want to know more about what I should want? Like, for example — clearly a whole lot of people are obsessed with tiny variants in Tarot de Marseilles patterns, designs, color tones, history, and card quality, and I want to know and understand more about that and why people are drawn to certain decks above others. Or, I know people fall all over themselves for every out of print Baba Studio deck, but I don't understand why those decks have the reputations they do over other similar decks, not really. (There! is! a! copy! of Baroque Bohemian Cats! Currently priced at $3,839.00 on ebay right now! Would you really pay $3,839.00 for photoshopped cat heads!!! I know those decks are unicorns, but I just don't know!!!!) 

For the simple reason that Baba crafts their decks.
There are a lot of decks available that are just collaged on a computer. People grab digital images and stick them together. You can see a lot of them here. http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/collage-decks.shtml

Some of them are appealing. Carrie Paris does nice work. And the Melissa Lenormand was very pretty. (But some others are really bad and remind me of nothing so much as that poorly done early 70's Mod Podge stuff you sometimes see with a ten cent price sticker at yard sales.)

But Karen and Alex took literally thousands of cat photos for that deck, because the expressions had to be just right, the lighting had to be just so, everything has to be as close to perfection as possible. The objects you see are actual objects - here is a dress for an upcoming edition, can you see it? https://www.facebook.com/BabaStudioBabaBarock/photos/a.55308092671/10156854054357672/?type=3&theater

 

Same with most of the others, like the Alice. Look at that tea party. Karen collected all that crockery for the shoot, and all those little cakes had to be baked and decorated. https://www.awesomeinventions.com/alice-in-wonderland-tarot-cards-150th-anniversary/

 

Those decks take YEARS to do. And then they use top tier printers (I can see every fine line and subtle color variation on the Victorian Flower Oracle. If you can get your hands on a copy, compare it to other peoples' Grandville decks.) And the stock is excellent, carbon core stuff. It's a great deck, and Karen knows her Tarot inside out, so it reads well. Highly, highly, HIGHLY recommended.

That said, I wouldn't pay $3839 for ANY deck. That's just me, though - I buy decks to USE. The "normal" price for a BB Cats on ebay seems to be $400-$500. Why not wait for the new edition and get it for less than $100? The bonus is that Karen and Alex, who actually did the work, get all the money. Not the flippers.

 

Quote

Also I feel like I should disclose something at this point, which is that in my day job I'm a culture reporter at Vox, and when my editor learned I'd gotten really into tarot collection, she was super fascinated and wanted me to pitch an article on the subject. So I am thinking about all of these questions for my own personal knowledge/use, but I'm also thinking about how I might frame them as a journalist, and I don't want to blindside anyone, so if anyone here is uncomfortable with a journalist reading their thoughts on tarot collecting, please let me know and I'll absolutely consider your thoughts/perspectives you've been kind enough to share with me off-limits in terms of whatever i might ultimately write about all this!

 

Thank you all! This is really all so helpful.

I like Vox. And anything I say here is already public, so no problem.
 

Edited September 11, 2019 by katrinka

[Raggydoll]

I will admit that I quite like factory sealed (or ‘new old stock’) decks, but not because of any financial delusions. I simply like the fact that they haven’t been exposed to incense (or cigarette smoke or whatever). So that always feel like a safer option but I would never pay a premium for them. I simply try to score deals when possible (usually in witchy shops that have no clue that a deck has gone oop and will sell it at original listing price). And I almost always open all the sealed decks, unless I don’t need them straight away. (Sometimes I wait to unbox a deck until I can give it the proper care and attention). 

[katrinka]

Yes, it's assurance they won't smell, or have smudges or some other damage. That IS nice.
And I don't think any of us would pay a premium for it. We just remove it and toss it.
It's different with toys. It's INSANE with toys. For some reason they're considered more valuable with the original packaging. https://blog.hobbydb.com/2018/05/31/to-collect-and-preserve-why-is-toy-packaging-worth-so-much/

It's also a lot less predictable which toys will become valuable. So collectors (and these are adults I'm talking about) will buy a lot of different ones and just hoard them unopened, hoping something will fetch an absurdly high price someday.
Tarot collectors seem a lot saner than toy collectors.

Edited September 11, 2019 by katrinka

[Raggydoll]

8 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Yes, it's assurance they won't smell, or have smudges or some other damage. That IS nice.
And I don't think any of us would pay a premium for it. We just remove it and toss it.
It's different with toys. It's INSANE with toys. For some reason they're considered more valuable with the original packaging. https://blog.hobbydb.com/2018/05/31/to-collect-and-preserve-why-is-toy-packaging-worth-so-much/

It's also a lot less predictable which toys will become valuable. So collectors (and these are adults I'm talking about) will buy a lot of different ones and just hoard them unopened, hoping something will fetch an absurdly high price someday.
Tarot collectors seem a lot saner than toy collectors.

Totally. My sister bought a lot of those rare 'monster high' dolls for her daughter and despite my protests she tossed the boxes. She just could not get what a difference a box would make. But to tell the truth, I think she enjoyed the hunt and the collecting even more than her daughter. It was a great bonding experience anyway and the potential value was never the biggest factor. 

 

I used to collect vintage first edition books (not just any first edition books of course, just by certain authors and in certain conditions etc, but thats a given so we need not go into it). So thats when I started learning about the ins and outs of collecting. Then I begun helping out in an antiques store and that taught me a great deal more. I saw just how different the mindset is depending on if you are buying/selling in a store and if you are buying/selling on internet auctions. Its fascinating, really. I have met a lot of collectors through the years and I love to hear them talk about their passion. Some people collect the weirdest things (no, I won't give examples as I respect these peoples privacy), and that is honestly very good because that means less competition and much better prices 😁 And the feeling I got when I was able to help a collector acquire something they didn't already have (which usually required me to go dive in the private storage area of the store and ask my boss if we could come up with a special price for the customer) - it just felt SO good! Collectors are among the nicest people I ever meet, particularly when they get to talk about their collection and have the chance at finding more, sought after pieces. My husband is of course a collector too. And that helps. As long as someone understands the concept of collecting then they are generally much more understanding and encouraging with other peoples collecting. 

 

[euripides]

On 9/10/2019 at 11:15 PM, Raggydoll said:

You will find that a hyped deck can wane out of interest fairly quickly

 

On 9/11/2019 at 2:22 AM, bookshop said:

Ooooh are there any examples of this in recent memory?

 

I'm thinking Motherpeace? For a while there it seemed to be all The Thing but it seems to be still in print, affordable and nobody mentions it. 

 

Ciro's decks caused quite a stir at first. 

 

A lot of decks, like the Greenwood, seem to have been deified by virtue of their name being uttered with reverence so often.

 

And of course these days you've got every other person trying to make a buck by publishing reviews and walkthroughs and all of that, and heavens forbid you say anything about anyone who has a Following.  So I don't envy anyone trying to do 'serious' collecting. Quite a minefield trying to work out what is going to be noteworthy.  (And oddly, I don't find gut reaction much help. Some good decks have taken me a while to warm up to).

[gregory]

I could name very many, as well as many which WILL go that way - but I don't choose to be crucified this morning - I have stuff to do !

[euripides]

then there's those you didn't realize .... I'm regretting trading away my Well Worn Path.

[Raggydoll]

10 minutes ago, archimedea said:

then there's those you didn't realize .... I'm regretting trading away my Well Worn Path.

Yeah. But in five or ten years from now, do you think those will be as desired? I am not so sure about that. Everything has a peak and then its usually downhill from there. And we all know that you don't invest during a peak. And one more thing, if that deck was suddenly worth 20 dollars, would you still want it back? 

[ilweran]

34 minutes ago, archimedea said:

then there's those you didn't realize .... I'm regretting trading away my Well Worn Path.

I can't remember what happened to mine. I had it and the Hidden Path. Definitely, I just checked on the Tarot Collectors Forum, I must have still had them in 2011 which is the last time I updated the list there. Don't remember selling or trading them and obviously can't check on AT anymore. So annoying, though I'm not so much bothered about not having it as I am about not being able to remember what I did with it.

[euripides]

27 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

 if that deck was suddenly worth 20 dollars, would you still want it back? 

yes! I want to use it. I hadn't connected with it, but I want it now, but not enough to pay a stupid premium. I wish more things were available digitally and print on demand. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by archimedea

[Raggydoll]

1 minute ago, archimedea said:

yes! I want to use it. I hadn't connected with it, but I want it now, but not enough to pay a stupid premium. I wish more things were available digitally and print on demand. 

I feel for you. Maybe someone will trade it to you and it won't sting so bad!

[gregory]

@archimedeaNO idea about this place, but you never know:

 

https://us.letgo.com/en/i/the-well-worn-path-tarot-card-deck-and-book_13bd57c3-bf5a-4ae6-af7b-8c94f456180b

Edited September 13, 2019 by gregory