Duplicate Cards in Reading

[vague-whisperings]

So, I can't really post the readings cuz they're for other people and I wanna keep their stuff relatively private u_u

Last night, I was getting cards for some readings I was doing and I hit some bumps in the road. In one reading, I got two identical cards. This is fine, since the deck itself has duplicates, so I can use the alternate card. However, usually, I wouldn't include the alternate designs since that's A Lot of Cards to shuffle. I didn't think too much of it, but then, in another reading, I got the same card twice, which wouldn't be possible with a physical deck.

Should I include these cards, or use the alternate versions? If I do include them, how should I incorporate them into the reading and how would the meaning change? Does pulling dupliates twice in one night (even if it's for different readings) mean anything special 😳 I did also pull these at almost 1am, so that might have something to do with it lmao

Thoughts?

[gregory]

You really need to use a physical deck and make sure you DON'T pull duplicates. I guess it's OK in a deck that has deliberate duplicates, but if you are getting them in a deck that doesn't have them, that is a big mistake on your part. How are you managing to pull TWO IDENTICAL CARDS anyway - most of us pull a card and lay it down in its place in the spread, rinse and repeat. The same card would not be available to be pulled more than once.

 

What does it mean that's special - well, to be blunt, sloppy practice somewhere along the line. If it's some on line programme - any such programme that turns up repeats is not one I would want to use.

[vague-whisperings]

5 minutes ago, gregory said:

How are you managing to pull TWO IDENTICAL CARDS anyway

I use dice in place of my decks bc I am Not Going To Pull My Decks Out At 1AM :V especially not my Neon deck bc then I've gotta reorganize it at the end.

 

Besides, usually I wouldnt end up with duplicates, but I didnt have my dice sheet in front of me so I didnt actually get to check my numbers until this morning. I get that I shouldn't have done the reading at 1am, but that really wasn't what I was asking 😕

 

Thanks for the input though ig? No more readings at late hours 🤞

[katrinka]

Why not just install a Tarot app on your phone? 

[gregory]

If you aren't up to pulling cards, you aren't up to reading. End of. Sorry to be blunt, but it isn't fair on your sitters...

 

You didn't really pull duplicate cards at all; you threw dice and missed.

Edited November 12, 2020 by gregory

[TheFeeLion]

I don't see anything wrong with having duplicates in a spread, especially if there are set spread positions. The spread position will likely alter what aspect of the card needs to be taken into account.

 

For example, if you did a past/present/future spread and had the same card for both the past and the future, it could be that the future situation is likely to be the same as what you've been through in the past. 

It would help to know what positions the duplicates are in.

[vague-whisperings]

10 minutes ago, TheFeeLion said:

I don't see anything wrong with having duplicates in a spread, especially if there are set spread positions. The spread position will likely alter what aspect of the card needs to be taken into account.

In this case, I did actually have a spread to go with the readings. The first one was a Core/Mind/Body/Spirit/Material, with the duplicates in Material and Core. The second was a Celtic cross spread with the duplicates in 1 and 4. I do have alternate cards in place of the duplicates that I could include in the reading; I typically would discard the duplicates, but I wondered if they would have any significance if I did include them

 

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

Why not just install a Tarot app on your phone? 

I like having something physical to use. Like I could use a random number generator to pick cards instead, but it's not the same imo

 

29 minutes ago, gregory said:

If you aren't up to pulling cards, you aren't up to reading. End of. Sorry to be blunt, but it isn't fair on your sitters...

 

You didn't really pull duplicate cards at all; you threw dice and missed.

Look, that wasn't what I had asked and it was quite frankly uncalled for. The reason I made this thread is that I wanted to have input from other, more experienced readers on the situation. It was not to have my process criticized and I don't see why you had to comment if you disagreed with the way that I pulled my cards.

[Norik]

Whether or not you use alternates or duplicates is really up to you, but it's important to establish your intent before you draw the cards. Much like reversals, you wouldn't shuffle up your deck, pull the spread, and then decided, nah this is too hard, I'm going to read this card upright instead. It would be an inaccurate reading.

 

In this case, you said that if you were using your physical deck, you wouldn't have had the alternates, so I would say that no you shouldn't have used it for this reading. After the first time getting a duplicate, it would have been a good idea to take some time to figure what you want to do about duplicates, but -shrugs- lessons learned.

 

(So really, the only 'special meaning' of having it twice in one night is that you need to figure out how you want to handle them in the future (Terrible joke)).

 

If you decide to keep duplicates in your readings, I would think that it would be like the Major Theme of the reading, or showing a strong connection between to the two positions. In the case of material and core being the same, it could be outside influences and their impact internally, or visa versa (without the spread, it's hard to be more specific than that). Basically the interplay of the two with respect to the meaning of the card.

 

My best advice would be to experiment. Do some readings where you include them, exclude them, or use alternates, and see which one works best for you. Just make sure that you make that decision before you start.

[Grandma]

This thread isn't even in the right section.  I'll let @Raggydoll know.

 

Once it's moved to the Technique forum I may add my two cents worth.

[fire cat pickles]

You could always get a 78-sided die:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/HKRAH8D2M/d78-tarot-die

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, vague-whisperings said:

The second was a Celtic cross spread with the duplicates in 1 and 4.

 

That doesn't tell us much. Some of us use the standard CC layout:

 

But I've seen more than a few use altered versions like this one. Note the changes in the way the cross is laid out and how some of the position meanings have been changed:



So position 4 could be Beneath (distant past or foundation), or it could be (more recent) Past/Leadup.
 

Quote

I like having something physical to use. Like I could use a random number generator to pick cards instead, but it's not the same imo
 

 

Dice are random number generators. A "random number generator" doesn't require a circuitboard.  And a phone is a physical object. Neither are actual cards, of course. But an app won't give you duplicates.
 

Quote

Look, that wasn't what I had asked and it was quite frankly uncalled for. The reason I made this thread is that I wanted to have input from other, more experienced readers on the situation. It was not to have my process criticized and I don't see why you had to comment if you disagreed with the way that I pulled my cards.

gregory IS another more experienced reader and her logic is sound. 
Does the person you're reading for know that you can't be bothered to get out of bed and use actual cards? And that you're on a forum asking for input that might or might not be valid? I hope you aren't charging them for this.

Part of learning is accepting criticism. When you were a child, your teachers corrected your mistakes. If they hadn't, you'd be illiterate. gregory wasn't being rude or ugly. She was stating a fact.

 

I don't know what the Neon deck is or why it has to be reordered each time you use it (???) but your best bet would be to get a pocket RWS or similar and keep it on your bedside table (or in your bag if you were out that night.)
 

1 hour ago, Norik said:

In this case, you said that if you were using your physical deck, you wouldn't have had the alternates, so I would say that no you shouldn't have used it for this reading. After the first time getting a duplicate, it would have been a good idea to take some time to figure what you want to do about duplicates, but -shrugs- lessons learned.

 

Yes.
 

55 minutes ago, Grandma said:

This thread isn't even in the right section.  I'll let @Raggydoll know.

 

Once it's moved to the Technique forum I may add my two cents worth.

 

You might be right. It involves a personal reading, but it isn't one per se. If that's the case, my apologies.

Edited November 13, 2020 by katrinka

[vague-whisperings]

2 hours ago, katrinka said:

gregory IS another more experienced reader and her logic is sound. 
Does the person you're reading for know that you can't be bothered to get out of bed and use actual cards? And that you're on a forum asking for input that might or might not be valid? I hope you aren't charging them for this.

Part of learning is accepting criticism. When you were a child, your teachers corrected your mistakes. If they hadn't, you'd be illiterate. gregory wasn't being rude or ugly. She was stating a fact.

I felt that it was extremely rude and aggressive and I reacted badly. My apologies. I couldn't tell what it was that she was saying, and I still have a hard time with that. Should I have just disregard the cards I had picked entirely?

 

However, at the end of the day, how I choose to pick cards doesn't matter. I know that my method is extremely unconventional, but the point of this thread specifically is what I ought to with duplicates and gain some ideas of what I should consider and experiment with. Thus far, I feel that this thread has gotten out of hand and off topic as people are focusing on the How and not on the What Should I Do Now.

 

FWIW, I think I'm just going to disregard the duplicates. It was a fluke and shouldn't have happened.

 

4 hours ago, Grandma said:

This thread isn't even in the right section.  I'll let @Raggydoll know.

 

Once it's moved to the Technique forum I may add my two cents worth.

Sorry, this was my best guess for where the thread should go.

 

3 hours ago, fire cat pickles said:

You could always get a 78-sided die:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/HKRAH8D2M/d78-tarot-die

This could work for my RWS deck, but most of my decks are 100 cards or more 😔

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, vague-whisperings said:

I felt that it was extremely rude and aggressive and I reacted badly. My apologies. I couldn't tell what it was that she was saying, and I still have a hard time with that. Should I have just disregard the cards I had picked entirely?

 

I would have written it off as a bum draw. 
All gregory was saying is that if you're going to do something, you might as well do it right in the first place, or it just ends up being a mess like this did. 
It wasn't rude or aggressive. gregory is very impartial and even tempered. She's usually the first one to stick up for an unpopular view: "Well, to be fair...." 😁

Facts are facts. You tried to take a shortcut and it ended up being a mess. 
The best thing you can do is to learn from that.
 

1 hour ago, vague-whisperings said:

However, at the end of the day, how I choose to pick cards doesn't matter. I know that my method is extremely unconventional, but the point of this thread specifically is what I ought to with duplicates and gain some ideas of what I should consider and experiment with. Thus far, I feel that this thread has gotten out of hand and off topic as people are focusing on the How and not on the What Should I Do Now.

 

It really doesn't matter how you pick cards in the privacy of your home. It's home, and it's just you. Walk around in your underwear, make tater tot sandwiches, nobody cares. 
But the public - people you read for, people you ask on forums - is another story. In those cases, it's best to make the effort to do things correctly. And wear pants or a skirt, lol.
 

1 hour ago, vague-whisperings said:

This could work for my RWS deck, but most of my decks are 100 cards or more 😔

 

I don't know the math and I don't know the odds of getting duplicates with a 78 sided die vs. regular 6 sided ones either, but even if you had a 100+ sided die, there's still a possibility of duplicates.
And fifty bucks is entirely too much for a silly plastic ball that somebody made on a 3D printer anyway. I can only advise you to draw cards.

[Raggydoll]

6 hours ago, Grandma said:

This thread isn't even in the right section.  I'll let @Raggydoll know.

 

Once it's moved to the Technique forum I may add my two cents worth.

While this thread does discuss techniques, it has already been mentioned that it revolves around specific readings that were done, and the spreads were just revealed. Its likely that further discussion could go into specifics about those readings so I don't think the thread truly belongs in our general areas. Unless @vague-whisperings really would want me to move it so that this topic can be discussed on a larger scale?I am not sure if anyone else would be able to share their experiences about using dices and then getting duplicate cards though, so it might still end up being about your specific methods and these particular instances. Still, let me know if that is what you want! 

[gregory]

5 hours ago, vague-whisperings said:

I felt that it was extremely rude and aggressive and I reacted badly. My apologies. I couldn't tell what it was that she was saying, and I still have a hard time with that. Should I have just disregard the cards I had picked entirely?

 

Sorry if you felt I was aggressive. At my age I am far too lazy to be so.

 

But my point still stands. You did not pick cards. You threw dice. And as katrinka asked - did your sitters know that was what you were doing ? I would simply not want a "reading" where actual cards were not involved. You couldn't look at them, see which figure was facing which other figure, which small elements stood out etc - just go by generic meanings. Very limiting.

 

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

I would have written it off as a bum draw. 
All gregory was saying is that if you're going to do something, you might as well do it right in the first place, or it just ends up being a mess like this did. 
It wasn't rude or aggressive. gregory is very impartial and even tempered. She's usually the first one to stick up for an unpopular view: "Well, to be fair...." 😁

If you quote the fact  that I always say that one more time I may kill you.

 

Well,, to be fair, I will probably just pull out all your hair...  

 

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

Facts are facts. You tried to take a shortcut and it ended up being a mess. 
The best thing you can do is to learn from that.
 

It really doesn't matter how you pick cards in the privacy of your home. It's home, and it's just you. Walk around in your underwear, make tater tot sandwiches, nobody cares. 
But the public - people you read for, people you ask on forums - is another story. In those cases, it's best to make the effort to do things correctly. And wear pants or a skirt, lol.

Annoyingly, I totally agree with katrinka. I do hate that. 

 

@TheFeeLion How do YOU get duplicate cards if you are laying out a spread ? You lay a card down, it's not in the deck to be drawn again.

 

@vague-whisperingsWhy on earth, though, were you "reading" at a time when you couldn't be bothered to get your cards out ? Save it for the times that you can. It will work better then. The mindset that says "can't be bothered" about getting out your deck could easily carry over into whatever you were saying.

[TheFeeLion]

20 minutes ago, gregory said:

How do YOU get duplicate cards if you are laying out a spread ? You lay a card down, it's not in the deck to be drawn again.

I've been known, on many occasions, to use multiple decks. Duplicate cards don't usually happen but they do happen sometimes. To be honest, when they come up i just read them like any other card.

 

Usually when I do a reading I'll take note of any repetitions, whether it be in the symbolism, the meaning or even just the direction the figures in the cards are facing. So a repeated card places even more emphasis on what the cards are trying to say.

 

Another thing, quite often I find that "mistakes" made while pulling cards (however that is done) will be exactly what the person needs to hear. So I've learned to be a little more flexible in the way I read and trust that I'll get what I need even if the draw didn't go the way I meant to do it.

[gregory]

33 minutes ago, TheFeeLion said:

I've been known, on many occasions, to use multiple decks. Duplicate cards don't usually happen but they do happen sometimes. To be honest, when they come up i just read them like any other card.

 

Ah - that I do get. That's not quite the same as a duplicate though - and the card would look different as well.

 

33 minutes ago, TheFeeLion said:

Usually when I do a reading I'll take note of any repetitions, whether it be in the symbolism, the meaning or even just the direction the figures in the cards are facing. So a repeated card places even more emphasis on what the cards are trying to say.

 

But the "duplicate" card - if from another deck - isn't repeated as such... it just has the same name, and if you stick only to book-meanings, the same words in the book. But the books - and often the meanings - for a multiple deck - give different takes completely.

 

33 minutes ago, TheFeeLion said:

Another thing, quite often I find that "mistakes" made while pulling cards (however that is done) will be exactly what the person needs to hear. So I've learned to be a little more flexible in the way I read and trust that I'll get what I need even if the draw didn't go the way I meant to do it.

 

I don't know what you'd class as a "mistake" - unless accidentally leaving a card in the box. Once a card's in the spread, it's there, isn't it ?

[TheFeeLion]

@gregory you're absolutely right. I think though, it applies in the situation that@vague-whisperings has here too, the only difference is that the duplicate cards are from the same deck intead of different ones. What is helpful is that the deck deing used has duplicate cards with varying artwork, so the way I see it, it would be similar to using more than one deck. 

 

29 minutes ago, gregory said:

I don't know what you'd class as a "mistake" - unless accidentally leaving a card in the box. Once a card's in the spread, it's there, isn't it ?

By "mistake" I mean anything from picking up a deck that wasn't chosen, to leaving cards in the box, to somehow getting duplicate cards, and everything inbetween. 

 

@vague-whisperings at the end of the day it all comes down to whether you feel you can complete these two readings with the duplicates in place, or if you feel like you need to scrap them and start again from scratch. If the people you are doing these for are paying then I would likely start again from scratch. If you are doing these readings for friends you could always let them know you've done things a bit different.

[gregory]

Quote

 I didn't think too much of it, but then, in another reading, I got the same card twice, which wouldn't be possible with a physical deck.

 

This is what flagged it big time for me....

 

I don't know how you can get duplicate cards in a  spread using a normal deck. With multiple decks - sure - but then it's not a mistake.

[vague-whisperings]

6 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I am not sure if anyone else would be able to share their experiences about using dices and then getting duplicate cards though, so it might still end up being about your specific methods and these particular instances

It would be best to move it. This is less about reading the cards and more about what to do with them. I'd like to hear more thoughts about card duplicates.

[katrinka]

4 hours ago, gregory said:

If you quote the fact  that I always say that one more time I may kill you.

 

Well,, to be fair, I will probably just pull out all your hair...  

 

Hair pulling? How girly. 🤣
 

[stephanelli]

6 minutes ago, vague-whisperings said:

It would be best to move it. This is less about reading the cards and more about what to do with them. I'd like to hear more thoughts about card duplicates.

I know I'm not Raggydoll (there's a surprise! 😆) But I have moved this thread into the techniques section for you!

[Raggydoll]

Just now, stephanelli said:

I know I'm not Raggydoll (there's a surprise! 😆) But I have moved this thread into the techniques section for you!

Thanks ! 💜 You can totally be my doppelgänger, just put on a Viking helmet and you’re done. 😁
 

And I look forward to hearing more about duplicate cards in general! 🙂

[stephanelli]

11 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Thanks ! 💜 You can totally be my doppelgänger, just put on a Viking helmet and you’re done.

😆😆😆😆😆

Yes!

 

Now back on topic...
Actually, this thread got me thinking about you could combine dice with tarot.  I was curious as to how it would be done without putting an unfair bias on some numbers (assuming you're using multiple dice rather than the 78 sided one) - @vague-whisperings
perhaps you could tell us your method?

 

If each number had the same chance of coming up, I'd say that getting it twice is special in some way - it links the positions in the spread - perhaps saying that the future will be similar to the past etc. (I think that was mentioned earlier).

 

Getting repeated cards in a one card daily draw is usually a sign (for me) that that card has a lesson it wants me to learn and I'm not listening to it.  However these are draws which are done once a day and not in the same spread.  I dunno, maybe it's similar?

[vague-whisperings]

So, I’d like to extend an apology to @gregory for my earlier posts, as well as @katrinka. My original post was badly worded and confusing for other people to engage with. I made it without thinking about how it would be received by people who're unfamiliar with my methods. I shouldn't have done that. Everyone's input thus far has been valuable and I appreciate that you guys have enough interest in this to tell me what you think.
 

My situation is a bit of a strange one- I can't use my decks on a regular basis due to safety. I've spent a lot of money on my decks and I care about them a lot; however, I'm at risk of losing them whenever I have them out. The times when I feel safe enough to use them are few and far between. Thus, I developed an alternate, innocuous way of choosing cards- rolling dice. (As a note: being caught does not affect my personal safety, just my ability to keep my tarot decks.)
 

This was easiest because I already had a set of dice that are used for DnD; after this, I simply adapted the numbers to match the decks that I have. Once I have the numbers assigned to the various cards, I use digital versions of the cards to compare visually and then I stitch those images together for the sitter. Since spreads are numbered and have questions, I just attach the rolls to those questions and answer accordingly. If anyone would like to see the dice method more specifically, I talked about it a bit here ( @stephanelli since you asked about it (Edit: Link is fixed lmao)) .
 

However, this isn't a perfect replica of using an actual tarot deck. There is a chance of rolling duplicate cards with all of them, even though only one of my decks includes duplicates. Previously, when I have rolled duplicates for decks that didn't have them, I would just discard them for the sake of mimicking their typical use. However, while reading the posts people have made, and realizing some people include jumpers (I would always put them back and reshuffle the whole deck), I thought I would ask everyone's opinion.

 

I love being able to actually handle my deck when I can, but it's not always possible for me. I enjoy doing readings for people (non-professionally), and I like working with and practicing tarot. At the end of the day, I'm still new to this, and I want to learn, I just can't do that in the traditional way.

Edited November 13, 2020 by vague-whisperings