Perenelle Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 OK so want to just say that I managed to find my pm's and I have Raggy Doll's email, thanks everyone! I'll have to figure out how to post it after it's formatted. Thanks again Raggy Doll!
Perenelle Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 I want to add that I have found the Emperor card very impressive. I'll go back over some of the work others have done soon. Been struggling with depression.
joy Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 25 minutes ago, Perenelle said: I want to add that I have found the Emperor card very impressive. I'll go back over some of the work others have done soon. Been struggling with depression. Great to hear you got the email and all is being sorted. Sorry to hear about your depression. Sending you a big hug!
gregory Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 Grandma - the second is better, IMNVHO It will show up better when printed.
Grandma Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 Thank gregory - I agree - every time I look I like the second one better. It's kind of weird that after I took your suggestion and sharpened the images I put the hazy finish back on and hid the sharpening....
geoxena Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 Yes, @Grandma, I also like the second more contrasty one. Looks good!
Grandma Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, geoxena said: Yes, @Grandma, I also like the second more contrasty one. Looks good! Oooh yeah geoxena those contours - uh I mean contrasts - sure do look appealing. Hmmm we better not start up again.... And thank you - your opinion on the card is important to me. Edited April 9, 2020 by Grandma
Nemia Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) Here is my basic design for the Three of Earth. The pictures are bad, simply taken with my telephone in my dark study - tomorrow, I'll send scans. The topic is work. I chose as background the Cathedral of Orvieto, as animal spirit the bee, and as focus picture a portrait of the artist Schadow with his brother and the sculptor Thorvaldsen. These are already in place. I will add three gold-painted playing coins. Now I found another image of a working man, Courbet's stone cutter. If I put him to the right, he doesn't look right, but if I put him to the left, he un-balances the picture. I can also leave him out and seek for another little element on the ground level. What do you all think? Does the picture convey at all what I want to say? Cooperation, hard work, satisfaction and mutual respect. Too many men? Oh, I could add a woman. I have loads and loads of art catalogues and postcards and magazines, I can find nearly anything 🙂 So if you have an idea, I'd appreciate it! Criticism, even better! Edited April 9, 2020 by Nemia
Grandma Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 I say leave the single workman out, @Nemia. It's the Three of Earth. A fourth man seems superfluous and distracting. I don't think you'll need anything on the bottom for balance if you move the inset of the three men down a little and play around with the placement of the coins. Otherwise, I love the card. One question though - since you are getting your pictures from "loads and loads of art catalogues and postcards and magazines" how are you making sure that you are not violating copyright? That's a very big thing. We must not expose Little Fang to possible lawsuits. Your images are perfect, but if you decide to look for others you will find websites with copyright free, royalty free images, and others where you can purchase licenses to use art for specific or general purposes. Hopefully that won't be necessary because yours are as I said perfect.
Raggydoll Posted April 9, 2020 Author Posted April 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nemia said: Here is my basic design for the Three of Earth. The pictures are bad, simply taken with my telephone in my dark study - tomorrow, I'll send scans. The topic is work. I chose as background the Cathedral of Orvieto, as animal spirit the bee, and as focus picture a portrait of the artist Schadow with his brother and the sculptor Thorvaldsen. These are already in place. I will add three gold-painted playing coins. Now I found another image of a working man, Courbet's stone cutter. If I put him to the right, he doesn't look right, but if I put him to the left, he un-balances the picture. I can also leave him out and seek for another little element on the ground level. What do you all think? Does the picture convey at all what I want to say? Cooperation, hard work, satisfaction and mutual respect. Too many men? Oh, I could add a woman. I have loads and loads of art catalogues and postcards and magazines, I can find nearly anything 🙂 So if you have an idea, I'd appreciate it! Criticism, even better! I like the option where he is on the left because it implies that hard work came before the money. It just feels like a natural progression and I like the aesthetics of it. And I don't think it is too busy. Like we've already decided: more is more 😎
gregory Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Grandma said: I say leave the single workman out, @Nemia. It's the Three of Earth. A fourth man seems superfluous and distracting. I don't think you'll need anything on the bottom for balance if you move the inset of the three men down a little and play around with the placement of the coins. Otherwise, I love the card. One question though - since you are getting your pictures from "loads and loads of art catalogues and postcards and magazines" how are you making sure that you are not violating copyright? That's a very big thing. We must not expose Little Fang to possible lawsuits. Your images are perfect, but if you decide to look for others you will find websites with copyright free, royalty free images, and others where you can purchase licenses to use art for specific or general purposes. Hopefully that won't be necessary because yours are as I said perfect. Sarah Ovenall researched this very thoroughly some years ago when she did her Victoria Regina; https://web.archive.org/web/20181225000148/http://www.ovenall.com/copyright/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20181224235904/http://www.ovenall.com/copyright/fairuse.htm Edited April 9, 2020 by gregory
Nemia Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 Thank you for the link! I sent already a mail to the museum where the painting is hanging. If they won't let me use it, I'll find another solution. It's the only part of my collages which is little altered and recognizable, the other pictures are either really old or torn to pieces so they can't be recognized.
Grandma Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 It was gregory who sent the link. I'm sure she knows a lot more about copyright than I do. I seem to remember that age isn't treated the same way in copyright law for works of art as it is for written material. I might be completely wrong and I'm too tired to look it up. Just be careful. And the pieces you are using are actually pretty recognizable. But I'm not the boss of this thread so I'll say no more. @Little Fang and @Raggydoll can take it from here if it needs taking. It might be helpful to know that some museums have open access collections where no permission is needed. I've used the National Gallery, Smithsonian, Met, and Getty, I believe.
Nemia Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 Well, let's see what the museum says. If they say no, I'll do another version.
katrinka Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Nemia said: What do you all think? Does the picture convey at all what I want to say? Cooperation, hard work, satisfaction and mutual respect. Yes. It conveys the card meaning perfectly. Better than RWS. And I agree with Raggy that the eye should "begin" with the guy with the pickaxe. Or, alternately, you could go top to bottom starting with him, have the bee in the center (the heart of the card) and the three men further down? (Or vice versa, since hard work is the foundation of success. Now I've managed to confuse myself, lol. I leave it to your good sense!) 7 minutes ago, Grandma said: I seem to remember that age isn't treated the same way in copyright law for works of art as it is for written material. Some things do go into the Public Domain after the artist has been deceased for X amount of years (it varies by country.) But some museums require you to purchase a license to use their images, especially commercially. I remember the British Museum having people do that to use the Game of Hope images.
katrinka Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nemia said: Well, let's see what the museum says. If they say no, I'll do another version. Ah. You got there before I even finished typing!
Nemia Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 Yes it's the Alte Nationalgalerie in Berlin. I'm an art historian and have from time to time asked permission to use images for academic use. This time it's different. I'm glad Grandma reminded me! I'll let you know what they answer. Either I have to pay a bit or put their copyright into the guidebook or just take another picture. Or add beards and eyebrows to their faces LOL
Grandma Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 56 minutes ago, Nemia said: Or add beards and eyebrows to their faces LOL Well I was not amused when someone did it to MY portrait...
gregory Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Nemia said: Thank you for the link! I sent already a mail to the museum where the painting is hanging. If they won't let me use it, I'll find another solution. It's the only part of my collages which is little altered and recognizable, the other pictures are either really old or torn to pieces so they can't be recognized. How old is the picture, and did you take a photograph of it ? It is my understanding (following an argument with the Louvre !) that if a museum allows photography, you may use any photo you take in there, but NOT scans of their postcards of the same works. (Which is why the Louvre doesn't let you photograph a lot of their stuff.... and why most exhibitions of "current" art don't allow it.)
gregory Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) PS: I want to take a photo of a copyright work and use it If someone takes a photo, copyright can exist in that photo. If someone takes a photo of a work protected by copyright, and the work forms an essential part of the image, using that photo on the web is likely to be an infringement of copyright. In other words, people are allowed to take a photo of a room of paintings, provided the inclusion of such paintings in the photo was merely incidental (for example, they formed inessential background). However, you would need to be careful about copyright infringement if taking photos of specific paintings. Taking a photo of something that is not protected by copyright is not an infringement of copyright – for example, taking photos of animals, landscapes or works for which copyright has expired. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/481194/c-notice-201401.pdf I am betting that picture is old enough to be OK ? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter is also helpful. Aa is: https://www.artquest.org.uk/artlaw-article/what-issues-should-i-be-aware-of-if-i-wish-to-use-photographs-in-collage-painting-2/ Edited April 10, 2020 by gregory
Nemia Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) I didn't take the photograph, it's a very old postcard from GDR times, and the painting itself is from the 19th century (Wilhelm Schadow). On the museum's website it says they hold the copyright. They'll certainly answer my mail only after Easter but I guess if I add the picture's and museum details to the guidebook, it should be okay. I'll wait for their answer. https://smb.museum-digital.de/index.php?t=objekt&oges=144547 (They allow quotations - if done right) Edited April 10, 2020 by Nemia
gregory Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) That's exactly the issue I had to argue with the Louvre. And lost. I was not allowed to take a pic (of a medieval painting), and nor was I allowed to use their postcards as THEY had "created" those and held copyright. A thought for you. Scan the card and run it through an image search. If you can find a copyright-free version you've done it. But there are SO MANY images of the cathedral frontage, it should be easy enough to slot another in ! Edited April 10, 2020 by gregory
gregory Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 for instance (free for non-commercial use.....) Or from wiki commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orvieto_kathedrale_1.jpg https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
Raggydoll Posted April 10, 2020 Author Posted April 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, Nemia said: I didn't take the photograph, it's a very old postcard from GDR times, and the painting itself is from the 19th century (Wilhelm Schadow). On the museum's website it says they hold the copyright. They'll certainly answer my mail only after Easter but I guess if I add the picture's and museum details to the guidebook, it should be okay. I'll wait for their answer. https://smb.museum-digital.de/index.php?t=objekt&oges=144547 (They allow quotations - if done right) Okay. Just make sure they allow commercial use.
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