Symph Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Morsoth said: No, that's fine! The borders are took into consideration. The books, stones, etc aren't important. They can be cutout. Here's a new quick update, so that you can see the image I have in mind: Makes so much more sense now! When the figure was still shadowy and not filled in I was imagining him looking more like Ben Stein or something lol But yeah I like it!
Starlight Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 5:51 PM, Wanderer said: Here you go, then - a coloured 4 of Water. A confluence of four streams leads to a new vista: the river stretching out into the distance, funneling thoughts into a new direction. Strange patterns emerge, for the scene is only partly real and partly of the imagination; the straight river is shaded by regular lines of gnarled, overhanging oaks, with light in the distance. Is this real, or an allegory? It is time to stop, absorb the strangeness before you, and come to terms with what you feel, and what it is telling you. It's a lovely piece, @Wanderer. Words are failing me to describe everyone's artwork and concepts. All I have right now is a sense of fizziness and a longing to have this gorgeous deck in my hands!!!
Starlight Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 8:25 PM, geoxena said: I wasn't going to write a longer version, but don't want to be the only one who doesn't. So, what's the concensus? I found 100 words was just enough to give the bare bones of what I wanted to say about the card (6 of Earth). (Actually, I think I ran over the 100 words...) So I did write a longer, more filled-out version for the forum. If you do want to write a longer piece, you could perhaps include why you chose to depict the card the way you did, and what the inspiration was. Some of those "clues" might spark ideas for the future owners of the deck. 🙂
Starlight Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) On 2/1/2020 at 4:32 AM, Grandma said: (Speaking of Grandpa and completely off topic, but since so many of the contributors to the long-ago Grandpa thread are on this thread as well, I will mention that Grandpa and I have severed our relationship. Because of the loving and supportive gifted readings I received, I had a good last go at it and knew when to let it go.) Just saw this now, @Grandma. Hope you're in good form and doing ok. ((hug)) Edited February 2, 2020 by Starlight
Starlight Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 7:13 AM, Morsoth said: I only worked on the concept art of the card. Because this is The Magician, I wanted to add as many references as possible to the Sacred Geometry. I have the Flower of Life, the Chakras and the Tree of Life from the Kabbalah. Only the Chakras will remains visible (unless I change my mind). The magician will be fully drawn, not just a silhouette and I'll have a background. The setting will be inspired by the medieval. The altar is only a quick copy-paste of my own altar concept, it won't be 100% the same, but will have the 4 tools (Wand, Athame/Sword, Chalice, Pentacle) and the 4 elements of magick (Air, Fire, Water, Earth). I decided to add the Hebraic letter (Beith) and the astrological (Mercury) correspondences for those you works with the alchemical/esoterical tarot. Anyway, the real work will begin this weekend! Lots of fun! I really like the card, and knowing that you've worked on and included sacred geometry makes it even more special!
Starlight Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 22 hours ago, geoxena said: I've started the actual drawing for my next card, which is Nurturer of Earth. My concept is an idea I've had for a couple of years, but I surprised myself by adding something to it I didn't plan. I was inspired partly by reading up on symbols from various cultures that would relate to this card, and also by some of the residents in a small local zoo where I am... You've captured the sense of nurturing so well here. And also the sense of power. If that (bison?) stamps her hoof, we'd better run fast!!
geoxena Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 54 minutes ago, Starlight said: You've captured the sense of nurturing so well here. And also the sense of power. If that (bison?) stamps her hoof, we'd better run fast!! Thank you!
Wanderer Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 6:57 PM, joy said: Beautiful!!! Love it uncolored too but the little tiny tad of colors just makes it very special! Thanks, @Jewel (Love the Novice of Air, btw!) and @Starlight - much appreciated! And @geoxena: yes, those bison have just got to take centre stage! No idea what was in the rest of the original card, but sometimes less is indeed more. Especially when it's so gorgeous!
joy Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Morsoth said: No, that's fine! The borders are took into consideration. The books, stones, etc aren't important. They can be cutout. Here's a new quick update, so that you can see the image I have in mind: That is going to be a very cool card! Love it! ❤️
Grandma Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 14 hours ago, Starlight said: Just saw this now, @Grandma. Hope you're in good form and doing ok. ((hug)) Thank you Starlight, I've never been better! (hug back!)
geoxena Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Wanderer said: And @geoxenahat was in the rest of the original card, but sometimes less is indeed more. Especially when it's so gorgeous!@Jewel (Love the Novice of Air, btw!) and @Starlight - much appreciated! Thanks, Wanderer!
Grandma Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Hmmm I posted this 48 hours ago almost to the minute. Symph answered right away but no one else has commented. I put an awful lot of effort into this card and I don't want to continue if I'm going in the wrong direction. Feedback PLEASE. On 1/31/2020 at 5:17 PM, Grandma said: Okay, here's what I've got so far. Since I haven't yet purchased the images I've partly X'd them out. The large picture is a man sitting on a bench, head bent, eyes closed, hands folded. Is he dejected, pensive, praying, asleep? The yin yangs show 1) an old man who seems alone, isolated, poor, hungry, worn out, and a young family who represent love, togetherness, comfort and vitality, everything the old man has lost or perhaps never had. You can see I went for diversity in my characters; 2) the beginning of life, a fetus, and the end, a skull; 3) fire and water; 4) night and day; and 5) the words - look carefully - "joy" and "despair". This one doesn't need to be x'd because it is my own design which I even have tattooed on the back of my shoulders. Some of the colors, like the bright green background of the family, are wrong, and the sizes, spacing, and rotation of the yin yangs need tweaking, but what do you think? Please keep in mind the concept that the Five of Pentacles represents pain, rejection, hardship and sickness and loneliness and abandonment and on and on, but it also represents the possibility of hope, safety, recovery and warmth.
Wanderer Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 35 minutes ago, Grandma said: Hmmm I posted this 48 hours ago almost to the minute. Symph answered right away but no one else has commented. I put an awful lot of effort into this card and I don't want to continue if I'm going in the wrong direction. Feedback PLEASE. Sorry, too much going on! Basically, I love this concept - for me, it's a perfect encapsulation of how one can see only the negatives, when the positives (or the potential for them) are there in the background. I confess I didn't see the writing (Joy-Despair) until prompted, so that one threw me slightly, and I immediately saw the man as being intensely sad rather than meditative (perhaps because I can't see the whole expression)... but once pointed out, yes, the ambiguity is there. In the traditional meaning, there is a strong suggestion that help is at hand, if we reach out and accept it, which isn't obvious here... so this one is rather darker in tone, to me, but still ambiguous. I think this is an extremely readable card, and your depiction makes it very powerful. Is the arrangement of the symbols going to be regular, or chaotic, and does that matter to your meaning? Either might work, depending on your intention!
geoxena Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Grandma said: Feedback PLEASE. Hi Grandma, Are you looking for feedback more on your concept or the artwork? Or both? For me, I like the concept. As for the artwork, I'm not sure I'm seeing what you intend because you said you will tweak it some, but I like the basic layout. I think it could also work with the main picture at bottom with yin-yangs above the dejected man. I like that the yin-yangs appear to be slightly different in size, which makes some look closer and others far away. However, my first thought was that if they were all outlined with a border or color, it might bring uniformity, even being different sizes. And on a very personal note, I would rather see a baby than an embryo. That's all I can say off the top of my head right now. I hope it's helpful in some way! Edited February 2, 2020 by geoxena
Grandma Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 @Wanderer and @geoxena, thank you! Your feedback is exactly the kind I hoped for and needed. Knowing how others see the card lets me know that I am going in the direction I intended in some aspects and where I need to correct my course in others. All of your notes are helpful. Some I had thought of- the outlines around the circles are actually in some of my versions for instance - and others I hadn't, like having the yin yangs above the man. I will experiment with renewed vigor! The man does look unambiguously sad. I don't think I can convey the "appearances can be deceiving" factor on the card, but I can address it in my long description. As for the arrangement of the yin yangs, the layout is pretty much how it will be, but I need to fool around with different sizes, whether I want them to overlap in places or all have space around them, and the rotation of the yin and yang symbol itself. I don't want them all turned to the same angles. The joy/despair motif is important to me and I know that it is hard to spot and hard to read. That's true of the tattoo as well, and it's intentional, which is fortunate because it's unavoidable. That works in a tattoo because people are always pleasantly surprised when I point it out to them. (I get a lot of comments on my ink and the interest is intensified when people can look closely.) I can talk about it in my description but it will mostly be a hidden clue, I guess. Wanderer, it's interesting that you see the general meaning of this card like I do - look around, help is there. We may be in the minority. I've seen the Five of Pentacles described as a bad card by so many members. So the degree of darkness will vary with the reader, which is not unusual in how cards are read. Thank you both again, and I would greatly appreciate hearing from others. Love, Grandma
Raggydoll Posted February 3, 2020 Author Posted February 3, 2020 @Grandma Looking at just the main picture, it is sort of reminiscent of the 5 of cups energy, but with the yin yangs it is altered in a new direction. For me, I think I got what you were intending by looking at the card. I think that the others covered most of what I thought of (like I too would probably prefer a baby over an embryo). I’m really impressed at the uniqueness of your yin yang concept. I think I would prefer them as they are now, below him. Pentacles are earthy and grounding but I think they might also throw of the balance in the card if they are put at the top. Though I would not mind a visual of other options. The thing that I’m not seeing in this card that we often see in 5 of pentacles is how there are kindred spirits alongside him; friends that are also outside of the warmth of society. Not that this is a crucial part of the archetype, but it’s one thing that differentiate it from 5 of cups and so I wanted to point that out.
gregory Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 I too would prefer a baby to an embryo. But I love the yin/yang idea. And yes - keep them below him.
Grandma Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) Thank you @Raggydoll and @gregory. So both of you and @geoxena would prefer a baby to symbolize Life. My idea was that the fetus and the skull bracket each incarnation but there are problems with that thinking, in that the fetus is living and the skull is not and that I don't want to suggest a "when does life begin" issue. If I used a baby would I not have to use a deathbed scene as a balance? I don't like that idea. Suggestions anyone? Or here's a thought - Sam Jaffe just murmured in my ear - the symbols for life and death on a chalkboard background. (I was a Dr. Kildare girl myself. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?) 10 hours ago, Raggydoll said: For me, I think I got what you were intending by looking at the card. Terrific! That's all an artist can hope for I think! 10 hours ago, Raggydoll said: I’m really impressed at the uniqueness of your yin yang concept. Awwwww..... 10 hours ago, Raggydoll said: The thing that I’m not seeing in this card that we often see in 5 of pentacles is how there are kindred spirits alongside him; friends that are also outside of the warmth of society. Not that this is a crucial part of the archetype, but it’s one thing that differentiate it from 5 of cups and so I wanted to point that out. Interesting...to me the difference is that the Five of Cups is about loss and regret, the Five of Pentacles about deprivation and anguish. I'll think about this but will probably stick with the solitary figure who, by the way @Wanderer, is looking more pensive to me today although yesterday I thought he was, as I mentioned, unambiguously sad. I love how the same exact image can speak differently at different times. 7 hours ago, gregory said: But I love the yin/yang idea. And yes - keep them below him. Thank you and I will. Love, Grandma Edited February 3, 2020 by Grandma
Raggydoll Posted February 3, 2020 Author Posted February 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, Grandma said: Thank you @Raggydoll and @gregory. So both of you and @geoxena would prefer a baby to symbolize Life. My idea was that the fetus and the skull bracket each incarnation but there are problems with that thinking, in that the fetus is living and the skull is not and that I don't want to suggest a "when does life begin" issue. If I used a baby would I not have to use a deathbed scene as a balance? I don't like that idea. Suggestions anyone? Or here's a thought - Sam Jaffe just murmured in my ear - the symbols for life and death on a chalkboard background. (I was a Dr. Kildare girl myself. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?) Terrific! That's all an artist can hope for I think! Awwwww..... Interesting...to me the difference is that the Five of Cups is about loss and regret, the Five of Pentacles about deprivation and anguish. I'll think about this but will probably stick with the solitary figure who, by the way @Wanderer, is looking more pensive to me today although yesterday I thought he was, as I mentioned, unambiguously sad. I love how the same exact image can speak differently at different times. Thank you and I will. Love, Grandma I am sure it will be much easier to grasp the complexity of the mans mood once we can see his face better!
Grandma Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: I am sure it will be much easier to grasp the complexity of the mans mood once we can see his face better! For sure, and I guess it would be alright to just post the picture now but I'm probably being way overconscientious about the copyright business. Trying to find totally free pictures was wearing me out. Some of the websites that advertised "free copyright, free photos" had all sorts of catches like "only two for free and then you must pay", or caveats that there may be some restrictions that the website is not aware of, or not all photos could be used commercially, or I couldn't find what I was looking for. I know lots of people use these sites without problems but it turns out that I am not one of them. So I'm using a website where everything is guaranteed and I'm going to call their customer service line to quadruple check. It's going to cost some money but right now I can afford the money more than I can afford the stress. If this deck ends up with copyright problems they will not originate with the Five of Earth.
Jewel Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) @Grandmasorry I did not respond with feedback on your card earlier, just needed some time to really think about it, and I do not come online much at all over the weekend except for a quick peek-in or so and wanted to have more time to prepare a thoughtful response that your work deserves I really like your take on the 5 of Pentacles. The fact that there are always different ways to look at things, and where there is despair there is always hope. One does not come without the other. I think that is conveyed beautifully. Aesthetically I do not think there is a right or wrong way it looks great the way you have it. An idea that came to mind was the image of the man at the center (soul or spirit of the total card image) and having the five yin/yang orbs located around him in the formation of a pentacle points (but without the lines forming the pentacle drawn). The things that matter to us most at a soul level. I actually get where you are going with the fetus/death yin/yang, because you are going from conception of physical life to end of physical life not from birth. I think you hit on our largest areas of concern (for lack of a better word) in those yin/yangs which form how we reflect on life especially in times of despair and hardships. It is how we measure or worth in many instances and propels us forward or keeps us stagnant and in despair. With our soul at the center and the other orbs around we can see where things are better and worse and can provide us hope to overcome our current hardship. There is a lot of depth in this card. I am so glad you joined the project and this will be another one of the cards in this deck that will give me much to reflect on when it comes up. Great job! As for the when life begins issue, I guess what I see it as the fetus as the very start or formation of the human, aside from the when does life begin thing. It is that from the beginning to the end thing that I see. If our energy is eternal, and it is our vessel that beings and ends, then spirit is eternal regardless but the fetus is the beginning or point of entry for our energy to manifest eventually in an earthly human form. It is conception not an issue of is it a person or not. But that is my personal opinion nothing more, nothing less. Go with your gut and concept whichever take you want to use. This is your vision, and I support your vision and creativity in whatever form you choose to express it. It is beautiful. Edited February 3, 2020 by Jewel
Raggydoll Posted February 3, 2020 Author Posted February 3, 2020 31 minutes ago, Grandma said: For sure, and I guess it would be alright to just post the picture now but I'm probably being way overconscientious about the copyright business. Trying to find totally free pictures was wearing me out. Some of the websites that advertised "free copyright, free photos" had all sorts of catches like "only two for free and then you must pay", or caveats that there may be some restrictions that the website is not aware of, or not all photos could be used commercially, or I couldn't find what I was looking for. I know lots of people use these sites without problems but it turns out that I am not one of them. So I'm using a website where everything is guaranteed and I'm going to call their customer service line to quadruple check. It's going to cost some money but right now I can afford the money more than I can afford the stress. If this deck ends up with copyright problems they will not originate with the Five of Earth. I’m sorry it’s been so stressful for you ❤️ Thanks for going to such lengths for the forum and for this deck!
Grandma Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 @Jewel WOW thank you! You really see what I'm going for in this card, and especially in the life/death pentacle. 18 minutes ago, Jewel said: If our energy is eternal, and it is our vessel that beings and ends, then spirit is eternal regardless but the fetus is the beginning or point of entry for our energy to manifest eventually in an earthly human form. Yes! And the fetus is our physical being before we are born and the skull marks our physical presence after we die. 17 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: I’m sorry it’s been so stressful for you ❤️ Thanks for going to such lengths for the forum and for this deck! Please don't worry. The stress is just part of what it means to be me. I've learned to minimize, work around, and accept it. As long as the reward outweighs the stress, as it greatly does in this project, I'm good to go. And you're welcome!
Jewel Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Grandma said: @Jewel WOW thank you! You really see what I'm going for in this card, and especially in the life/death pentacle. Yes! And the fetus is our physical being before we are born and the skull marks our physical presence after we die. You expressed that so much more succinctly than I did! 😆 but yes, that is what I was trying to say, it is what I see.
geoxena Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) I have a question for everybody. What birds would you consider to be associated with the Earth element? I have some ideas and my own sense of "earthy birds," and also did some googling on it, but would love to hear from you folks, too. I know birds are often considered Messengers who occupy both Earth and Air, and of course waterfowl are also associated with Water, but I'm not necessarily wanting to depict a bird as a messenger or go-between. There will be a few animals in my Nurturer of Earth card and I want a bird to interact a bit with the Nurturer. Not exactly at her side, but in close proximity. I'm just not sure which kind of bird it should be. All ideas welcome - thanks! Edited February 3, 2020 by geoxena
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